60 MINUTES
- This is 60 Minutes with the headlines.
We'll begin with breaking news. As soon as the Americans approved the delivery of arms to Ukraine, Donbass was fired upon. It's hard to believe that it's a coincidence. They appear to have been rather trigger-happy. They attacked nine villages, launched 25 122-mm artillery shells, and 131 explosive shells. They attacked "terrorists", of course. It was the so-called terrorists that built a new children's health center. It was attacked, too, by the way. I wish I could see Kuchma's expression when he held negotiations in the Minsk group today. It was he who guaranteed peace, wasn't it?
- From 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock.
- A whole hour?
- A whole hour, yes. First, there were explosions at a distance. Then, they got closer and closer. And about 5 o'clock or at 5 o'clock, the last explosion took place here, in our street.
- As soon as they occupied the gray zone, they began to clear out our Petrovsky borough. All of the residents here are retirees. They want to live a quiet life. But apparently, we can't do that. Nobody can tell us why this happens".
- That's terrible. Kuchma, who once was considered a fierce manager, is still known as the "red director". He flip-flops on his position on a daily basis. Do you remember that he promised to lift the siege from Donbass at the first Minsk meeting? But today, in Minsk, he stated that he changed his mind and will lift the siege only when the enterprises of the DPR and the LPR will be returned under Kiev's control.
Only our friend and former US ambassador to Ukraine Herbst principally insists on his position. "There's a 'red army' in Donbass". He openly said that in our program. Now in the Capitol, he says that next to Avdeevka, which is in Ukrainian-controlled territory, where he and the former head of the CIA visited, there are 2,500 Russian servicemen, 450 Russian tanks, and 700 Russian canons. It's right next to Avdeevka. Perhaps he saw them through binoculars? The source of such sensational information didn't specify that, as always. The main thing is is that Ukraine needs American guns, lots of guns.
Kurt Volker, Special Representative of the U.S. State Department for Ukraine: "The provision of Ukraine with security assistance is vitally important. It'll have both military and psychological influence on the capabilities of the Ukrainian military forces. It's also important that Ukraine received military equipment from us as well. Speaking of the priorities, I think that they're countersniper systems. They've already been delivered and are very important. They're also Javelin anti-tank systems. In the future, we should focus on anti-aircraft defense and coastal and maritime border security. I welcome President Trump's determination to provide Ukraine with arms. However, the U.S. should consider the option to deliver more Javelin systems and more counter-battery radar systems. The U.S. also should provide Ukraine with coastal radar systems, Mark V SOC boats, and anti-ship missiles. This will help Ukraine deter the Kremlin's provocations at sea, which we've seen more frequently over the last 18 months. The West's support of Ukraine was considerable and necessary but it wasn't fast and effective enough".
- Deter the Kremlin's provocations. Dear Yakub, you taught at MGIMO, you know everything. Could you remind us about a war which American weapons helped win in recent years?
Yakub Korejba: Take the war in Yugoslavia, for example. All of the countries of former Yugoslavia live better than they lived before the war and during the war. Take the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and I sincerely hope, in Syria. And that dirty war should also be finished.
- Which of these wars was won?
- Neither Ukraine, nor the Minsk group, nor Russian managed to do it.
- Excuse me, so judging by what you said, you want Ukraine to end up like Libya, like Syria, and like Iraq? You want Ukraine to be divided like Yugoslavia? Those are some "great" results.
- I don't care what happens in Ukraine after the war ends. Ukrainians should care about that. I want that dirty, bloody, fratricidal conflict to end as quickly as possible. If you can't manage that conflict, if you started it but don't know how to end it, the Americans should do it. Europeans, the Germans, and the French proved to be incapable of it. They have neither the political will nor the technical means.
- Wait, wait, wait, wait, Yakub. Let's not put on airs, please, Yakub.
- I call to take a pause and not assess the Americans.
- Please, lower your voice.
- You'll thank them for ending that war in one way or another.
- Excuse me, wait a minute, please. Let's not put on airs or shout. Can you explain how a war can be technically ended when new arms are being delivered? How is it supposed to happen?
- What did they do for those senior people to live better?
- Let's not discuss it. We've done a lot. We've done a lot. It's considered that we're supporting Donbass. And this is partially true. But delivering arms, how are you going to end the war? Does it mean that you'll just keep shelling retirees? Wait, answer my question.
- We should scare them so much that they all get in their cars and leave for Rostov. This is the goal of the West and the Americans. I sincerely hope that they've already approved everything and will start carrying it out. I hope they're not empty words.
- Do actions mean going on the offensive and begin using those arms?
- I hope that the thugs get scared before they begin to bomb them.
- If they don't get scared, they'll be destroyed, right? Since they're "terrorists," it's okay to shoot at a children's hospital, right? Tonight, they shot at a children's health center. There weren't people at that health center, but that new, recently-built health center was attacked.
- My hope is that nobody will be killed. It's very weak. They should minimize the number of victims. Your task is to admit the thugs and not to prevent them from fleeing from Donetsk and Lugansk. This is the task of Russia and your humanitarian moral duty.
- Why are you shouting?
Konstantin Zatulin, deputy of the State Duma: First of all, I'd like to say that the military achievements and talents of the Poles are well known in history. They're the main experts in conducting wars and losing them. Therefore, we're very grateful to Mr. Koreiba, who loses his mind when he tells others how they should live. I think that you should do a simpler thing. You should just go there and fight right on the frontline alongside those fighters fighting for a united Ukraine. Be consistent instead of shouting like a mad man in this studio.
- It isn't my country, so I won't do it.
- Please keep your voice down.
- That's the Ukrainians' job.
- Could you not raise your voice on our program, please? Give a chance to the representatives of the country, whose television program it is, to speak. For a while. I'd like to say that concerning all those ideas that only American weapons, not anyone else's, be it French or German, will help them win, I'd like to inform you that no American weapons won in Yugoslavia in 1999. No Albanians won in Kosovo. The treachery of Yugoslavia and the fact that, back then, we did not do what we should have done. Unfortunately, we should admit that it happened in 1999. In my opinion, this is a page that we turned over because we see what we're doing in Syria, in the situation with Ukraine, Crimea, and so on. Now it's a completely different story! Koreiba, you'll have to get used to it! You and your friends in Poland, Western Germany, or anywhere else, who analyze that cause. It's because you, a European, look at everything with the eyes of an American. Unfortunately, it's typical of Poland. The U.S. has no interest in the conflict in Ukraine to end. Europe, countries such as Germany and France, may express a desire to resolve that conflict because it's a European conflict. But such light-headed Europeans like you are ready to fight for anything right on the frontline. All this does is cause problems for Europe. By the way, it isn't the first time this happens to Poles. Even Churchill said that you have to learn at least some lessons from your own history.
- Let us choose what we fight for ourselves.
- You already chose that. You're incapable of doing anything yourselves.
