- Interestingly, the Verkhovna Rada has addressed Poland's President Duda, though I guess they'll reach out to Trump too, demanding that he veto the anti-Bandera law, which Parubiy, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, described as 'a stab in the back of belligerent Ukraine'.
Andriy Parubiy: "This law is a stab in the back of belligerent Ukraine, it is profitable neither to Warsaw nor to Kiev. Kremlin is the only beneficiary of inciting this hatred. It's an unfriendly move, Ukraine won't let anybody choose how to shape the historical memory, to honor Ukrainian heroes on its behalf".
- Jakub, we realize what they suggest you forget. But first things first. First, your grandfather killed Ukrainian Banderites during the War. You are recommended not to remember it, seemingly, to renounce your grandfather. And now, Parubiy. Why are you being so tough to Ukrainians? They're at war with us, the aggressor. And you've backstabbed them.
Jakub Korejba, political scientist (Poland): Firstly, indeed, my family's history is complicated. During the War, the Tarnopol Voivodeship was like hell, especially after 1941, when the Germans came there, encouraging certain marginal movements in the Ukrainian society. Fortunately, we've advanced since that time. Thanks a lot to Parubiy for his fraternal advice but let me remind you that Polish laws are effective only on the Polish territory. Our legislation and regulations don't affect the Ukrainian territory.
- So, you want to say to Ukrainians that it's no concern of theirs?
- I think that Ukraine is a sovereign, independent state which is free to choose its way on its own, including its ideology.
- Even if it's a Banderite way.
- We, as the only country that wants Ukraine to be a sovereign, independent, strong European state, fraternally advise to choose another ideology and other heroes.
- For example, the Marxist-Leninist one?
- No, they've already experienced it. I think there are enough positive constructive personae that could unite the whole of Ukraine. Banderism is the ideology of an obscurantist, backward, poor, embittered village which hates everybody around it and attributes its own guilt to them. With such an ideology, they can only enter Europe as Eurobondmen. I don't think they are happy with this role. If such as the stance of Ukraine's leadership today, may the Ukrainian people know that they should forget about the European dream with such an ideology, as well as about friendship with Poland. And Poland is the only country for which an independent Ukraine is vital. The rest, Germans, Americans, or least of all Russians, don't care about the existence of Ukraine. But we do care. Elections are looming in Ukraine, and I think that the Ukrainian people, given…
- So, you're interfering in the Ukrainian elections.
- We give our fraternal advice to a fraternal people with which we used to live in the same country. And perhaps, we'll live in the same country one day because, obviously, Poland is responsible not only for itself but for all the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from Estonia to Moldavia. Ukraine is a key country without which all Eastern Europe would be under threat because the only alternative to our union is the Russian imperialism.
- You're saying that Russia has imperial ambitions. Look at this man with a straight back and a nose that proudly pushes out. It's not just advice, you're humiliating people. Let's look at the situation in Poland, listen to those working there, no matter if they are about 1, 3, 5 million.
Galina Fediv, seamstress, outskirts of Warsaw: "I was on a bus, talking to my friend on the phone in Ukrainian, when a man in his 50s who looked like a gentleman made a rebuke, like I had to speak Polish in Poland, and if didn't like it, I'd better go back. And he mischievously called me a Banderite".
Oksana Guzar, nurse, Lodz: "People are called 'Banderites' in the public transport, even children in mixed classes are called so. My son, 12, wears a T-shirt with a trident. His teachers advised not to wear it as it was 'Banderite'".
Oleg Pelekh, shoemaker, Poland: "A Pole came, but when he learned I was from Ukraine, he left. It was in autumn when Seim began its anti-Bandera campaign. Now I'm scared to say that I come from Bandera's homeland".
Mariya: "After I paid at a shop in Rzeszow, a guard asked me to show my bag. I was taken to a staff room, searched and touched. Of course, they found nothing and didn't even apologize. I realize why they chose me out of other people waiting in line. I had a Ukrainian ribbon on my bag. They must have thought that since I am Ukrainian, I stole something".
- During Jakub's speech, Vadim Valerievich, a representative of the 'obscurantist village', looked away several times. Comment on it. Your major ally in the EU is now chasing you away from there.
Vadim Tryukhan, Ukraine's European Movement: Jakub doesn't express the opinion of the majority of Poles. I'm 100% sure about it. Frankly speaking, I'm amazed at his rhetoric. It has a Nazi and fascist…
- Wait, Seim voted for it, Duda is likely to sign it, so Jakub is on trend.
- I listened to him carefully, though it was very unpleasant. Now Jakub is trying to play, you know, a fascist nationalist, there are many of them in Poland, unfortunately. Nevertheless, I'm sure most Poles don't share his opinion. The day before yesterday an address of the cultural elite, signed more than by 100 people, was published.
- Who are for Bandera, Vadim Valerievich?
- Who condemned the law itself and urged not to sign it and bring it into force. Moreover, when the Senate voted on the law, about 1/3 of senators were against, it was about 20 vs 50, if I'm not mistaken. Heated discussions took place. Finally, I guess that Mr. Duda, who is now…
- Wait, if 1/3 of the senators were against it, the law wouldn't have passed, but it did.
- I mean that there is no monopolism. The Law and Justice party is an utterly nationalist, I'd even say, somewhat Nazi party…
- Nazi ruling in Poland? Vadim Valerievich, you amaze us more and more every day.
- I said a nationalist party which steadily acquires some traits of a Nazi party. Unfortunately, it's now trying to cater to the domestic electorate. It's on the all-European trend now.
- An all-European?
- Of course. These somewhat Nazi, far-right parties are gaining momentum.
- So, Europeans are Nazi, like you've called the Poles.
- Don't interpret my words, I'll speak by myself.
- Explain then.
- We worry about Ukraine after such a statement.
- I'm personally concerned about this situation. But I hope that people like Jakub will take off his Red Army budenovka with the first wind of change. Last week he said one thing, now he says a different one. He wants to be on trend.
- You can't change the story of Jakub' grandfather.
Jakub Korejba: Vadim, I wish you and your country all the best.
Vadim Tryukhan: I listened to you carefully, when it was unpleasant, so listen to me carefully too.
- You have no choice.
- I'm still sure that Ukraine will get through this trouble. We'll steadily grow economically stronger because we have no alternative. If this leadership can't change social and economic living standards we'll elect another.
- In Poland?
- The elections are coming soon. As Ukraine grows stronger, countries like Poland won't dare do such a nonsense.
- Poland is the EU member, you're longing for the EU, but they don't let you in, it's a crucial point.
- Now, Ukraine acts as a weak state that doesn't dare to take logical retaliatory measures, which Israel did, for example, like to recall the ambassador, to cancel visits, and so on.
- Renounce visa-free entry?
- To create such conditions for the Ukrainian citizens to break contracts and return to Ukraine so that nobody can work in Poland so that Poland fights for workers from the Tumba Yumba tribe…
- But Poland wants to bring them back to you, but you don't accept them so far. They aren't fighting for them, Vadim Valerievich.
- These are double standards. On the one hand, they increase the number of work permits, create levers to attract Ukrainian students. On the other hand, they're trying to act as a sort of 'the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth', a country that tries to dominate their neighbors. By the way, they have problems not only with Ukraine but with all their neighbors, they quarreled with Germany. Though, Germany is a powerful country which is several times stronger than Ukraine. And German government and key political parties can just ignore it. Some Polish politicians are beleaguering them: "You owe us money". But they just ignore them. I hope that in 5-10 years Ukraine will become such a powerful state that it will just sweep aside such Poland's backstabs.
