Karen Shakhnazarov, Film Director; People's Artist of Russia: You know, looking at the whole situation in Ukraine since 2013... I repeatedly said that we, the contemporaries, never actually understand the real... the real essence, the goals of those events that we observe. We think one thing, and then it turns out to be quite different. Strictly speaking, today, the general opinion — and we can see it in our Ukrainian experts, for example, in Ukraine too, perhaps among Ukraine's elite... Even Mr. Parubiy directly said that Russia can't exist without Ukraine. That the Russian Empire can't exist without Ukraine. Ukraine's movement toward the West... It is considered today, perhaps, that the meaning of this movement is to move away from Russia. I'm starting to think that it's quite vice versa. Maybe it's exactly... The meaning of the events that we observe is that Russia is moving away from Ukraine.
Because... Vasiliy here calls me an "Imperial," and I can agree with that, I don't see anything bad in empires. An empire consists of peoples living a certain way. Empires have existed and they'll always exist.
- And they return.
- They exist and they always will. There's nothing bad about them. But the thing is, Vasiliy, the United States showed us an interesting example of how to maintain an empire in the modern world. What is characteristic of the modern world is that an empire doesn't need to expand territorially. The US didn't actually expand territorially, in exception of very small territories like Hawaii.
- Texas as well.
- That was after they conquered the continent. When an empire is formed, it should be underpinned by a big country. There should be a lot of wealth, both in agriculture and natural resources. But it doesn't have to expand like it used to be before. In that sense, I suspect that... Let's imagine Ukraine returns to Russia. Is it possible for Russia today?
- It doesn't need that.
- It's an absolutely terrible and unnecessary burden. I'm not talking about the ideology that we'd already been through. But in terms of the economy, the development of the country, it's terrible; it would be a catastrophe for Russia. That's why those are just dreams. But I see that... this idea is out there implicitly within the Ukrainian elite. They think that if they fail there, they can return to Russia. But the main thing is that Russia doesn't have such an illusion because Russia is surely obsessed with Ukraine. It's an old obsession that goes back to the Grand Duchy of Moscow, for which the return of Kiev — the mother of Russian cities — was the greatest dream. That's why it's very complex psychologically for Russia to get rid of this feeling somehow. That's why I think the guidelines are quite wrong. It seems to me that this bears the main meaning of what's going on today. Some territories may perhaps join Russia or side with it somehow. But in general, these views of Parubiy are absolutely illusory, in my opinion. Russia in that sense has seceded from Ukraine and doesn't need it. Now, as for... And we should proceed from it when we discuss things…
As for the Minsk Agreements... I see more and more that the Minsk Agreements are indeed an absolutely glorious victory of Russian diplomacy, and much of the credit goes to our president. Because as time goes by... Generally speaking, Russia doesn't need to do anything, it should just wait. In theory, Russia can attend the Normandy Format meeting, but it doesn't have to do it. France needs it, Germany too. They need to demonstrate that they're doing something to solve this issue in Europe somehow. Zelensky also needs it because he has to demonstrate that he's trying to do something about his election campaign promises, that he's striving for peace somehow. But in principle, it's absolutely clear that the implementation of the Minsk Agreements doesn't sit well in Ukraine, and it will stay like that. That's obvious. It's impossible because it definitely... And I agree with Ukrainian nationalists in that sense, by the way — it will lead to Ukraine's full collapse. If you give a special status to Donbass, you should give it to all the territories. You have to let them have their own language. But this will inevitably lead to the collapse of the country. The idea of Ukrainian nationalism is clear — create a single unitary state in order to completely rip it off Russia. It's only possible if the language is totally banned and if all of history is rewritten. By the way, they manage to do it in some places thanks to this endless information war. But it will be impossible if the Minsk Agreements are implemented.
And now to the most important thing. Zelensky is... Again, let's return to Marx, who we're all familiar with. Everything was thrown away — Marxism, Leninism... Of course, Marxist theory couldn't explain the whole world, just like the Soviets tried afterward, but in some parts, it actually makes a very accurate observation. In Ukraine, power is in the hands of the comprador-bourgeoisie, a term coined by Marx. This is the bourgeoisie that smuggles the national wealth abroad, so to speak. Who is it most afraid of? It is most afraid of the Russian bourgeoisie. Because the Russian bourgeoisie is much more powerful. And hence there's this endless anti-Russian nationalism. The bourgeoisie supports it. And for them, of course, Zelensky is their protege. That's why I agree with Yevgeny Kopatko that Zelensky's main mission is not peace in Donbass, but the issue of land. That is the main thing. That's what he was put in power for. And he will surely solve this issue. But by itself, the history of Donbass, Lugansk... Well, I made a slip of the tongue, but you know what I mean. That is absolutely not the number one task for him. As for Ukraine's comprador bourgeoisie, it doesn't care at all what happens to Donbass. I think it said farewell to it long ago. It's comfortable with the current situation when it can be supported like that. That's why I think the Normandy Format won't result in anything. President Putin's position of no concessions is obvious as well. It's obvious that Ukraine won't be able to go for it. There will be endless procrastination, and thus, it will drag on. Therefore, it's absolutely clear that Donbass has, in fact, already left Ukraine. And it's necessary to understand that it's a fait accompli and we have to live with it.
The other question is for how long the people of Ukraine are going to tolerate this situation. We say: How can this happen? But, on the other hand, look — that very comprador bourgeoisie owns all the TV channels. They have all the information. And we see that in the modern world, those who own information can change people's consciousness. They can erase it completely.
- And we keep people in their right mind.
- That's why I think that this meeting will mostly be a formality. No real steps will be taken after it. Elena Bondarenko said that there are still a lot of Ukrainians who may run away, so to speak. So the Russian Federation needs to create the conditions needed for them to run to Russia. In Ukraine, there are lots of smart, educated, hard-working, very intelligent and literate people. Ukraine has great farmers. By the way, we have a lot of land in the Russian Federation which isn't being cultivated. We all know that. It goes without saying that we need to expand all the laws that apply to Donbass (allowing its citizens to move to Russia) to all of Ukraine. And even create favorable conditions for the citizens of Ukraine who are choosing a place to live. That way, instead of moving to Poland or Germany, they'll make their new home with us in the Russian Federation.